In the year 1878 Mrs. McKinstry gave a gentleman residing in Utah, who is gathering material for an elaborate history of Mormonism, permission to question Dr. Hurlburt concerning the Spaulding manuscript. He made no response, although there was abundant evidence that he received the request. It is also known that he received other requests of the same character, which he has never acknowledged.

In 1834 Mrs. Davison heard that Hurlburt sold the manuscript to the Mormons for a sum of money, which he used in purchasing the farm near Gibsonburg, Ohio (about twelve miles from Fremont), where he now resides, and that the Mormons burned the manuscript at Conneaut. A second report was to the effect that Hurlburt sold it with the sworn agreement that it should not be given to the world until after his death. There are circumstances which support both theories; but the author’s opinion, after a careful study of the matter, is, that Hurlburt made a copy of the original manuscript, which he sold to E. D. Howe, of Painesville, to use in writing the book "Mormonism Unveiled,” and sold the original to the Mormons, who destroyed it. The life of Hurlburt since his return from his errand of duplicity to Munson shows conclusively that he wishes to hide himself from the world, and that he is burdened with a secret which he does not intend shall come to light through any act or revelation of his own.

THE INTERVIEW WITH DR. HURLBURT.

In August of 1880 the author had an article published in Scribner's Magazine on the ‘‘ Book of Mormon,”’ and in the November following visited’ Dr. Hurlburt at his home, near Gibsonburg, Ohio, in company with Oscar Kellogg, Esq., of Norwalk, a well-known lawyer of the vicinity. (Appendix, see Mr. Kellogg’s letter, No. 7.) From notes written immediately after this visit, while staying in Mr. Kellogg’s house, and while every detail and circumstance was fresh in the writer’s mind, a description of the interview with Hurlburt will be here given.

In advance, it must be stated that Hurlburt had not the remotest anticipation of this visit, and that it was an entire surprise to him and his family. It was on November 13th, 1880, a cold, cheerless day, that Mr. Kellogg and myself made the journey from Fremont to Gibsonburg. A more forlorn country and worse roads it would be difficult to find in any portion of the United States; indeed, save for the telegraph wires and a line of railway that passes through Gibsgnburg, one could imagine one’s self at the antipodes, while traversing the melancholy twelve miles between Fremont and Dr. Hurlburt’s house, which is a mile from the railway station at Gibsonburg.

Driving up to the front of a small white-painted cottage some distance from the road, we alighted without attracting attention. It was noon-time, and, stepping on the piazza, we heard within sounds that gave evidence of the midday meal and conversation. Rapping at the door, it was opened by an old woman, who had just risen from a table, where sat an old man, a young girl, and a young man, who were still engaged in eating. Advancing into the room, after excuses for so intruding, I asked the old man, who, with the others, now rose from the table:

"Is this Dr. D. P. Hurlburt ?”

"Yes," he replied.

I gave him a letter, saying that it was from the Hon. John Rice, of Fremont; and as he seemed very much agitated, I inquired:

"Shall I read it to you?"

"Yes,” he again replied.

The letter mentioned the writer as seeking information regarding Mormonism. In short, it was a letter introducing Mr. Kellogg and myself, written by Dr. Hurlburt’s physician, Dr. Rice, who had said to me that Hurlburt was in a precarious condition of health, and whatever I had to ask of him had better not be delayed, and that I had better see him at once.

Dr. D. P. Hurlburt died in 1882, two years after the interview described.

By the time I began the letter we were all seated, save Hurlburt, who remained standing; and when I had, finished reading he was shaking violently, as with palsy, and very greatly agitated. I was struck with his appearance. He was still a very handsome old man, even in his shabby clothing and amid his plain and homely surroundings, having a fine, ruddy complexion, expressive eyes, long, abundant gray hair, and a figure of excellent proportions. He looked at us both curiously, then with difficulty burst out:

"I don’t know what has made folks so curious about Mormonism lately. I think it is an article in a magazine published last summer. Why, I haven’t heard anything about the Mormons in forty years till now; and there’s a man named Craig, in Alleghany City, and one named Cobb, in Salt Lake City (above alluded to), and another named Patterson, in Pittsburg, all writing to me about a manuscript they say 1 got from Mrs. Davison, at Munson, Mass., in 1834; I have not answered one of these folks.”

"Well, Mr. Hurlburt, did you get the manuscript from Mrs. Davison ?’’ I asked.

"Yes,” he replied, shaking still more violently— "Yes, I got one she gave me an order for.”

"Mr. Hurlburt" (for I dropped the Dr.), I remarked, getting up, and looking him steadily in the eye, "I am the person who wrote the magazine article you have just mentioned, the great-niece of Solomon Spaulding and the granddaughter of William H. Sabine, who gave the order for ‘The Manuscript Found,’ which you presented to Mrs. Davison at Munson, Mass., in 1834.”

He started, appeared to be alarmed, trembled excessively, and after a little gasped out in a faint voice:

"Is that so ?”

Mrs. Hurlburt, a sweet-faced, sad-eyed old women, who had admitted Mr. Kellogg and myself, came close to me, and, gently stretching out her hand toward me, said :

"Well, we will tell you what we know; we are willing to tell you.”

"I hope you will," I replied, "as I have come from New York on purpose to you on this subject, and if there is any one who ought to have the truth concerning ‘The Manuscript Found,’ it is our family.”

Then I turned to Hurlburt, and asked:

"Are you the Hurlburt who visited Mrs. Davison, my great-aunt, in 1834?"

Yes,’’ he replied.

"Did you get ‘ The Manuscript Found’ at her order in Hartwick, N. Y., from Jerome Clark?”

“Yes; I got what they said was Spaulding’s manuscript.”

"For what purpose?"

"I was sent there by a man named E. D. Howe, of Painesville, Ohio. He wrote book called ‘Mormonism Unveiled,’ and he wanted to compare the Spaulding manuscript with the ‘Book of Mormon.’ ”

"Did he think Mrs. Davison had the original manuscript ?"

"Yes, he thought so.”

"Did you give him the manuscript you got at Hartwick?”

"Yes, I did.”

Here Mrs. Hurlburt, who listened intently to this talk, went to a bureau and found a letter, which she handed to me, Hurlburt helping her to do so. I closely watched and listened to see if there was anything said between them. Their heads and hands were in close proximity as they bent over the drawer; and although I could hear nothing distinctly, I believe and always shall believe that he conveyed instructions to his wife as to her further conduct in the matter.

The letter was from E. D. Howe, of Painesville, the aged author of the book "Mormonism Unveiled." Its purport was that he had seen the magazine article alluded to, and after a criticism on the statements made in it, he told Hurlburt that the manuscript which he (Hurlburt) had given to him, in 1834, was burned, with other of his papers, in his office, etc.

After reading it I again looked significantly at both Mr. and Mrs, Hurlburt, and asked:

"Do you believe the manuscript was burned ?”

"Well, he says it was,” Hurlburt replied, greatly disturbed.

"Was it Spaulding’s manuscript that was burned?”

Hurlburt waited a moment before answering, his wife looking at him with a pleading, sad expression of countenance.

"Mrs. Davison thought it was; but when I just peeped into it here and there, and saw the names Mormon, Maroni, Lamenite, Nephi, I thought it was all nonsense; why, if it had been the real one, I could have sold it for $3000; but I just gave it to Howe because it was of no account.”

"Had you any right to do so? You borrowed it, solemnly promising to return it to Mrs. Davison.”

He grew still more disturbed, and replied:

"Well, I forgot most all about it.”

"Did you intend to return it ?” I asked, very slowly. Instead of answering, he told his wife to bring him another letter from the bureau, a kind of statement which he had made to Mr. Patterson, of Pittsburg, but would give to me. After reading it, I remarked:

"Then you know the history of the Spaulding manuscript ?”

"Oh, yes, all about it !”

“Were you a Mormon?”

"No,” he quickly answered.

"Yes, you were," interposed his wife.

"Well, I suppose I was about a year,’’ said Hurlburt, reluctantly.

“Were you at Conneaut in 1834, at the time the Mormons met there and had their meeting ?”

"Why, certainly," he replied; "the Mormons sent me to get the manuscript from Mrs. Davison.”

“I thought you said Howe sent you.”

"Well, when I found the manuscript amounted to nothing, I gave it to Howe,” he replied, looking guilty.

Mr. Kellogg, who had been observing everything in our conversation, but letting me (as we had agreed before entering the house) do the talking, here said:

"Mr. Hurlburt, this lady has come a great distance to see you, and you ought to tell her what she desires to learn.”

"You’re a lawyer, I guess,’’ remarked the old man, eeing Mr. Kellogg.

"Yes, from Norwalk; my name is Oscar Kellogg, and I think you were once on the jury in a case I tried.”

"Well, I thought I had seen you when you came in; is this lady a relative of yours ?”

"Yes, my wife’s cousin; she is staying with us.”

"And you came over here from Norwalk with her to see me ?”

"Yes, I came to help her, if she needs my assistance.”

"Mr. Hurlburt," I resumed, "do you know where 'The Manuscript Found’ is at the present time?”

The old lady went close to Hurlburt, touched his shaking arms, looked up in his face, and said :

"Tell her what you know.”

His face became perfectly scarlet, and his trembling increased. He turned (for during this entire interview he stood up, a most pitiable object in his infirmity, as he became more and more agitated, in the evidently fierce conflict he was going through not to betray himself or to allow his wife to unburden her heart of her knowledge), and looked at both Mr. Kellogg and myself, and almost screamed:

“Why, you must be crazy to ask such a question. Did I not say I gave it to E. D. Howe, and he says in the letter you read from him it was burned up in his printing house. Why, lady, if I knew where it was, I would give $1000 and my farm besides for it."

"You know,” I laughingly said, "the report is you were paid $300 by the Mormons for the manuscript, and with that money bought this farm.”

He smiled for the first time, and replied:

"Why, the Mormons hated me; they threatened me. I had a fight with Joe Smith, and had to have him bound to keep the peace with me.”

"Why did they hate you ?”

"Well, it was something about that 'Mormonism Unveiled.'"

"Mr. Hurlburt, you retain your memory perfectly?"

"Yes, I’m right up here" (pointing to his head), "but this trembling goes to my heart. I shall go pretty soon.

He brought me a picture of himself, taken ten years ago.

"Please let me have it," I said, holding it in my hand, hoping to bring it away with me for further use.

“No; I'll have it copied for you,’’ he answered, evidently divining my meaning.

"You know," I continued, "you are and will be remembered; your part in this Spaulding matter makes you known. You cannot help it, and the world may desire to see how you look.”

He had grown calmer, but this speech of mine, by which, with a little flattery, I had hoped to gain my object, seemed to agitate him again greatly, and he said:

"No, I don’t care to be known at all: I will write to you, and help you to get facts about Mormonism; but I don’t want to be talked about.”

Making one more effort to get at the truth, I said, very earnestly:

“Oh, Mr. Hurlburt, it a lies in a nutshell, and you can crack it. Do you think Solomon Spaulding wrote the story from which the Mormons made their book ?”

"Yes; and no question about it.”

"Well, then, where is the manuscript?”

"I think it was copied by Rigdon, and he kept the original, and Mrs. Davison had the copy.”

"But Mrs. McKinstry has sworn that her mother had what her father knew to be the original; and if the exact copy, it would have answered Howe’s purpose.”

Hulburt seemed nonplussed; he remained quiet, as if entirely unable or unwilling to continue the argument, and his wife, who was constantly watching him, said, with a meaning look at him:

"Why, don’t you see the one he got from Mrs. Davison wa’n't no good?”

"Why did he not return it, then ?”

"Well, Howe said he would; but then it got burned up."

As a final experiment, I said:

"There is a man in Illinois who is said to have the original manuscript, and that you, Mr. Hurlburt, sold it to him with the promise he would not use it in your lifetime.”

The old man again screamed :

"'Tain’t so; it is not the original one."

Then, seeming to see that he had somewhat betrayed himself, he turned to Mr. Kellogg with:

"You said you knew this lady.”

"Yes,” replied Mr. Kellogg, "she is just who she represents herself to be.”

"Well,” said Hurlburt, turning in a sort of a defiant way to me, “if I talk all day I can’t tell you any more; but I'll write to you.”

The interview was over evidently. Both Mr. and Mrs. Hurlburt asked us to have dinner, and the old lady urged us again and again to stay over night, "to talk it over by and by.” I have since deeply regretted that we did not do so, as it has occurred to me that she intended in some way to give me information, which she dared not give in the presence of her husband; but the old distrust of Hurlburt which Mrs. Davison had was so strong within me, that even with Mr. Kellogg’s protection, and willingness to remain, I could not persuade myself to do so.

We two women stood a little apart, and she said:

"I'll write to you; give me your address; I'll tell you what I know.”

After thanking her, I asked if she was Hurlburt’s only wife when he was a Mormon. A little flush came into her pale cheeks, and she replied:

"Well, he wa’n’t a Mormon long; and I was his first wife.”

We had no further chance for private words; and, as Mr. Kellogg and I agreed after we left the house, Hurlburt assumed a triumphant expression as we bade them good-day. We further agreed in the impression that certainly they had well feigned a part they were so unexpectedly called upon to act; and that beyond a shadow of doubt Hurlburt, after getting the genuine Spaulding romance at Munson, destroyed it or saw it destroyed by the Mormons at Conneaut, in 1834, after his being paid for his share of this transaction.

I may add that it has been told me that the general ‘impression at the time of this sale and afterward, which prevailed in the minds of those most familiar with the subject in Ohio, was that Hurlburt became a Mormon with the intention of making money, and that his mission to Munson was the culmination of his projects in that direction. Hurlbut sent me the statement he promised. (No. 8, in the Appendix.)

The reader will see it contradicts several of his verbal statements made in his own house, and it amounts, in fact, to nothing, being a studied and deliberate affair with which he hoped to satisfy me and other inquirers on the same subject.